What's Your Future Normal

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick. And welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth to help you advance in your career. Today we're delighted to be speaking with Henry Coutinho-Mason, who's one of the world's leading authorities on consumer trends. Having spent a decade as the managing director of TrendWatching. He is the author of The Future Normal, great book, by the way, Henry, that launched at South by Southwest in March of 2023.

Based in London, he works with clients on consumer trends and innovation strategy. Quoted as a trend expert in The Guardian, Financial Times, the Harvard Business Review, The New York Times and The Economist, among others. Henry is also an award winning social entrepreneur with his innovative solution to generating social value with empty commercial property. 3space was commended and fast companies world changing ideas and won the European section of the FT's City Urban Ingenuity Awards.

Oh my gosh Henry, when I look at it and I read the book and I thought it was accessible, it was practical and it was really thought provoking in so many different ways. But you live it. I mean, you're living the future.

Henry Coutinho-Mason: Thank you Anita,thank you.Now I have kids, I feel like I'm living it through them.It's been an interesting journey over the past 10,15 years, that's for sure. And I feel incredibly lucky. And I and I know we're here to talk about careers and ideas, you know, for your students and for your listeners about, you know, that ultimately their lives might pan out professionally. I started my career as an accountant at KPMG.

Anita Brick: Oh my gosh, I did not know that. It's not in your bio, by the way.

Henry Coutinho-Mason: As the kind of a trend watcher. And you know, someone who talks about innovation, right? It's kind of my dirty secret. So I'm going to am like, am I dirty laundry in the first minute of the interview? This is the thing, you know, when I, when I was reflecting, coming onto this, the show and the conversation we were going to have, have I a good example of kind of modern careers and how life can pan out?

There's that amazing book that some of your students may have read, and I highly recommend it. The Squiggly Career. The world twists and turns, and how you can end up doing jobs that probably not even you know existed when you were at school, and you when you're having those career advisory conversations.

Anita Brick: What I took away from Future Normal is put the seatbelt on. Yeah, strap yourself in, but not too tightly because it's really essential that you observe and you act authentically, so that you honor who you are. Sounds like those of us who have done that. So the first question that came actually from an alumni who graduated not that long ago, and she said, “in a world where any expert in any field could be brought back to life through artificial intelligence, how can I, as someone early in my career, even compete?”

Henry Coutinho-Mason: What a great question. Hey, it's funny, isn't it? Because, you know, any kind of technological paradigm shift of which, you know, AI certainly seems to be the latest, you know, makes many people feel uncomfortable. The question came in from someone who I think is in the actually the sweet spot. And I think if you're early in your career, you know, there are epic opportunities to be and even within any organization, someone that gets there and someone may help other people, but that window will close.

Anita Brick: Not to interrupt you. I think you're onto something here. So how do we use technology to actually regain some of our humanity? How do we combine? This was a question from a student, and he said, “how do I take and combine technology with my desire for increased interaction to regain some of my empathy and compassion that was at least stifled during the pandemic?” So how do you use the technology, the advances, because you talk about how we can use technology in a very broad sense, but how do you couple the technology with the desire for increased empathy and compassion?

Henry Coutinho-Mason: I think that is such a brilliant question, and that is the question of the next decade, decades. It's kind of the question I think we've been answering really badly in the era of social media. Social media was meant to do this, you know, it was meant to bring us closer together.

Anita Brick: I don't mean to interrupt, but it seemed so far removed from us. It seems like the character, and then the humanness gets lost in the jargon. Well, we're going to be at arm's length about all of this and not really get to how we connect life to life? How do we do that? Because thinking about it strategically, again, removes it from the person. It's like people are dots on a page, not real.

Henry Coutinho-Mason: Have a point of view, something that you believe in, I think, you know, in five years time, be 100 times more valuable to have a clearly distinct and as unique as possible point of view than to be a kind of a prompt engineer. You know, having that breadth of understanding about, you know, what is important to people. You know, it's going to be your number one defensible starting point because you can explore ideas of AI. You can come in, but you know.

Anita Brick: Let's stop for a second. I think we're doing too much into AI, which is really the whole problem, right? People are so attracted to it and mesmerized by it that we just lost the whole person. You started talking about AI and digging deeper there, and we lost humanity, which was exactly the question, like, how do you bring it back? So one point that I took away is that you need to have a voice, and you need to have a voice that is authentically yours, where you have an opinion that is yours. It is a differentiator today and will be a differentiator even more as time goes on. And so when you think about it, how do you know that you have the right point of view? How do you know that you have the right value proposition for your voice?

Henry Coutinho-Mason:I really do believe humans have always valued what is scarce and what is abundant to lose its value. You know, again.

Anita Brick: I get that, but I feel like we're not being very direct about this. Yes, people value what is scarce, but how do you develop the voice that is authentically yours that can rise above the noise?

Henry Coutinho-Mason:I think it's with working with great people, you know, and that is always been true.

Anita Brick:I don't mean to interrupt again, but I think that we're talking about things so theoretically and so at arm's length, I think we're going to miss our audience today. To your point, you talked about our relationships and working with great people and having great people in our world, in our lives, and with having the opportunity to have a global network. There's a student who asked a question. I think this is a really important question, and I think we need to delve deeply and concretely about it.

And what he said is I find it difficult to create enduring relationships with people I have never met in person. I know I'm not alone. How do you create enduring successful relationships, or have you seen others do that when they've never met in person? This is sort of a really, really big deal. So think about it in very practical terms.How do you either do it yourself or advise others to build bonds when they've never actually been in the same place at the same time?

Henry Coutinho-Mason: As you say, let's get really practical. Really practical. The short answer is, I think for you and I like to say all for 90% of your most students, you know, 95% probably of your most impactful relationships at some point, there has to be an in-person component, is my experience.

You know, there are I can say I can think of 1 or 2 people where we cross paths so frequently and we've, you know, had zoom calls, etc. but in the end, you do take it to another level of trust, of relationship. You know, if you have an in-person interaction with someone, it doesn't have to be a long time.

Actually, you know, the book is a fantastic example. You know, I met Rohit. You know, I think it was October, like the tail end of 2019, just before the pandemic, I had a conference in New York at the coffee break. You know, we spoke for probably 15 minutes, but I know, I'd known about him online for the previous ten years.

So like, we were not starting in any way from scratch. Right? We were, you know, familiar. I mean, we I don't think we'd ever actually met exchanged 1 or 2 emails in those ten years, but I 100% knew who he was. So we connected. And then in the pandemic, at the end of 2020, I had some time. I left my previous company and I was kind of speaking to people I knew in the industry, and we were talking and we, you know, we said, we've got some time, let's write a book together.

And the second time we met in person was in Austin the night before we launched the book on stage, you know, we were able to do a keynote in front of 2500 people, but we basically had to stitch together literally in the hotel room the night before. But of course, like he had a whole bunch of his talks online.

Like I was super familiar, you know, with how we wrote and I could understand how that translated.

Anita Brick: So with Rohit, you met over the coffee break, you bonded, you went, you know, off to write the book that you did. But what if someone hasn't had that random, serendipitous meeting? Where do they go from maybe exchanging email, being on a video call of some kind to developing the building blocks? We talked about Lego at the beginning, building off those Lego bricks to get to the point that they have something more, even if they haven't met yet. So I think we need to unpack that. What if you have a relationship with someone that is only virtual? What are 3 or 4 things that you could do to up the level of the depth of that relationship?

Henry Coutinho-Mason: It's a great question, and I think there's a few things that I've done that are worth building a presence where people are aware of what you think and what you stand for, and what direction you're going for, helps them know who you are and helps them know what you want. The other thing you know. So sometimes I'll share a little pieces with someone I think it might be useful for, or someone that they're working with it might be useful for. Little interactions, you know, the other thing that has worked for me in the past, again, I'm sure this is very familiar to, you know, all of your business school listeners, because that's the way business school works. It's not always the person that you need to speak to that's for you.

You know, through a video call, it might be someone else. Try to think about not just that person you're trying to build a relationship with, but the people around them, or vice versa. The people that are in your network who you know physically, who they might want to, who they could, you know, drive some value from. So I think it's that web of digital video, arms length, if you like communications and thinking about when those who cross over into a physical world, and that isn't just going to be 1 to 1.

There are many people that surround everyone in your network. And then, you know, as I said, it is knowing what your objective is because, you know, we live in a world where we are all over connected. You know, that is the truth of it. Your online connections matter for most people, especially as you get more and more in your career, you're literally way outnumber the your ability, your cognitive ability to manage all of those connections successfully.

And obviously some people are better at it than others. And I think it's just, you know, again, maintaining that if you like, a kind of a gentle precision there, that's the kind of analogy that we can draw. And then knowing where and when you want to kind of dive into a subsection of your network, that's when you need to somehow take it offline, in my opinion, but that you need to know what you want to achieve.

You know, you have to have an objective and a goal. And it sounds like from, you know, that question that came in, you know, how do I create an enduring relationship with people that I'd never, never met in person? The short answer is you can't be with everyone you meet online, right? You know, some people are—I hate to use the word—useful because it sounds so transactional, but if I think back to my life like it blows hot and cold and sometimes, you know, you have intensive relationships and you don't.

And I think that's, you know, in a way that's kind of been one of the lessons that I found useful in Book Zero,  I'm sure many of your listeners will emphasize. What I faced feels so far away from you, the achievable reality. No, I actually find it strangely liberating and I think probably more so now that I have kids, because maybe I've just got to kind of awful excuse, you know, I just don't have time and I have no shame in messaging someone three times now.

I have literally don't have someone message me twice because, you know, if it doesn't catch someone, I do this, if it doesn't catch someone at the exact moment when it's right for them, it will kind of get lost in the noise. And actually just accepting that on both sides, inbound and outbound, has been so liberating for me, because it's just like even try again if it's important to you or let it slide.

And I'm a big believer, you know, Steve Jobs talked about you know you can join the dots in hindsight. Like some things you can try and fail. So of course you do have to try and force things that are important, just not working. One where you try and find another way. You know everyone, everyone's too busy.

Anita Brick: Yeah, it feels a little bit too transactional to me the way you're approaching it. Not being hard on you. But when you use the word well, this is kind of transactional. Where is humanity in all of this? Where is the care and appreciation? And this is not accusing you of anything. It's just more it feels like that's sort of the tenor. How do we infuse some of the, you talked about, you know, the empathy because you understand people are busy and with two young children that you are and others are as well.

How do you let people know the value they've given to you? The impact that they've had on you and how much you value that? Because that feels like it's another element that should be added to how you create deeper relationships, whether they're virtual or in person.

Henry Coutinho-Mason: 100%. And that goes back to what I was saying before about, you know, that kind of keeping a gentle flow, which is digital for me. As I said, I published weekly, but it's I probably send most of my newsletters after I've written them. I probably send them personally to anywhere between 5 and 10. Maybe, you know, more people saying, I think this story might be really interesting, keeping that low level of empathy, respect, connection, that doesn't have to be super time intensive. And the other thing you have a tip I always give?

I try hopefully. I'm sure anyone listening only calls me out. You know, if someone you know, if you make a connection with someone or someone else, just telling them that that person you know was useful to you has always been hugely appreciated. For me, just dropping someone a note saying, you know, you connected me with this person. We had a great chat and this is what's come of it.

It's amazing how much it's like those small notes really remind people that they helped you in the same way. And, you know, I'm sure you've had students or faculty or alumni who've message you and you're like, okay, so my, my, my efforts weren't in vain. In a world of, you know, we've been bombarded by messages as we've discussed, but every platform and every inbox, you can't keep up with housing.

Are you the character that people know and can trust to do the right thing and to care about people? And you can't do that for everyone in every inbox? You know, I believe it's probably social, but you can do it for enough people that enough people will also vouch for you and, you know, look out for you.

And I think there's that's again, that fantastic book by Jonathan Haidt which is called The Happiness Hypothesis, where he kind of connects what we now know about the brain. And in neuroscience and the modern behavioral psychology with essentially kind of all of the ancient religions and shows, you know, how our elders were, why, you know, they the reason why, you know, there's so much overlap between all the great religions is because they get human nature in human connection.

When the world of AI or social media, you know, email, right? It doesn't matter, right? At the end of the day, this word character has come up a lot. Yeah. And so it's that balancing of some things might feel transactional in and off that, that immediate exchange. But they sit within a, you know, a much wider milieu of, of actions that is often just what you're doing, you know, trying to help people. Those motivations should never leave you.

Anita Brick: Agree. So when we think about all of this, you've made some really good points. Clearly you were wanting to create a positive future normal as part of your I use this word very loosely, part of your DNA. As a social entrepreneur, how do we take those building blocks we've been talking about and create a broader ripple that takes people toward the positive or the productive? I mean, you are doing that with 3space, and I love the concept of taking real estate that is underutilized commercial real estate for whatever purpose, bringing in for profits, nonprofits and startups. How do we mobilize people to move in the direction of actually not just suffering through external macro trends that could be, you know, pretty dark. Some people would say, well, you know, the commercial real estate market, you know, this is all bad and this is bad.

You took a different approach, which didn't just impact you and your family. It's much broader than that. And what made you look for opportunities that would create greater community and greater value beyond your own four walls of your family? 
Henry Coutinho-Mason: There's a lot to unpack in the question, but number one, I'm so glad that you mentioned that point about creating an optimistic vision of the future, because that is one of the things that we really came back to again and again is there is so much dystopian narrative around the future, you know, unjustified, right?

You know, let's not shy away from it. You know, whether it's, you know, AI technology, whether it's the climate crisis. And, you know, that is the biggest challenge that we face, arguably the universe. So many real risks. But, you know, we live in this world. And both myself and right, we're kind of constantly speaking to these entrepreneurs and saying to people, well, it just seems to jar so aggressively with a lot of day-to-day conversations that we're having, which are really quite exciting.

And then we're going to move on to the second part of your question. You know, how do we inspire people to act? And I'm like, come on, 3space as a third part. Again, another kind of myth is that everyone needs to start something that they know, you know, for years even more prevalent in the US than it is maybe in Europe, right, where, you know, you are much more entrepreneurial culture.

You know, not everyone should and not everyone should, and not everyone will start something. Right. And so to actually start something that kind of challenges the conventional wisdom and, you know, most great ideas start out looking like bad ideas is the truth, right? There's it. Otherwise there would be no opportunity in that. You know, that kind of crazy in the earlier stages.

But, you know, again, the myth of the solar entrepreneur, every great idea as it starts to grow, as it starts to evolve, they need teams of people. If we can empower people to feel more comfortable with making the leap, and that doesn't have to be starting something and changing the world themselves as the entrepreneur, the founder. But they can join a team.

They could help be aware that this is, you know, there are exciting opportunities in some of these things. So that's another huge part of why we wrote the book. And another what I've always believed in my DNA in inverted commas. Final part you mentioned 3Space, the nonprofit. I'm not super involved day to day. Like we've got an amazing team.

I was then with my business partner. We co-founded it. He's really hired the whole team that have done an incredible job of growing it to this amazing organization. And we've supported hundreds of nonprofits over the last ten years, might be approaching a thousand now, giving them free Space and giving affordable workspace. So paint a picture for your listeners.

You know, we took over. We had an old school just being shut down. They were building a big block of flats. It was in central London. And the property company that owned it, you know, they were waiting, planning permission, and the process took a long time. And, you know, we turned the cafeteria, a school cafeteria, into an Agtech incubator.

London's first Agtech incubator. So we gave these, like, really early stage, really experimental, kind of crazy ideas. One of them, it's about ten years ago, they were using AI to grow black soldier flies, which are the most efficient source of protein. Right? They can be fed to animals and they can be fed on food scraps. They took waste from a brewery.

So really like crazy ideas and we gave them the space for free. And they could raise a seed round and get started. And you know, this was hugely inspiring and it's an amazing thing. And, you know, we've got so many stories like that, how these businesses grow and, you know, by giving them a foothold they wouldn't have otherwise had.

How did we come to that idea? It was actually a much more kind of mercenary, you know, opportunity actually, a friend of mine was working in the property space, going full circle to start a conversation. I was not really enjoying being accountant, he said. Essentially, one of my clients is kind of seen as this charitable loophole, basically, you know, it was essentially like a tax break that landlords could get.

And so, you know, he said, I think there's an opportunity for you to to set up this nonprofit and actually use these spaces effectively. And, you know, it can help save landlords money. And I was 26 at the time and, you know, had a little responsibility and thought, hey, how kind of why not think that is? You know, as I said earlier, the story of a lot of entrepreneurship, a story, a lot of my career, the right conversation at the right time.

And it wasn't huge grand plan. And I didn't go to university and study kind of urban, sustainable communities, which is something that I'm now passionate about. It just kind of fell into place, you know, in a very opportunistic way. Having said that, I'm huge, really proud of over the ten years, like we've grown the organization and had to then develop a, you know, a much more professional team.

You have deep expertise in what we do. And it's been incredible to watch that journey. Did I have any, you know, real vision for it other than like this is exciting and this feels like there's an opportunity. You ask the question like, how did I have the grand opportunity to have a bigger impact? The truth is, I'm not sure I did at the time, I thought, this is just way more interesting than what I'm currently doing.

I personally have the opportunity to do it because kind of why the hell not, you know? It then happened to grow, and I suspect actually a lot of the people I spoke to around the book, scientists or people creating these interesting models, sometimes they grow into things that actually on day one or even day 100 or even they thousand, the people involved didn't really have that vision for it.

You know, sometimes it takes the worlds to catch up, things to change. So I don't always think you need to have it mapped out. I think it's the short answer of what I'm trying to say. I love the question, but it is hard. It is good to have that confidence in yourself.

Anita Brick: I agree with you, and I think sometimes it's just being open to saying, even if it's not a flat out yes, maybe, at least I will continue.

Quick question: do you have time for one more question? Absolutely. Okay, good. So we're going to be very practical here and actionable. So if you were advising someone who wanted to create a positive future normal for themselves and even for those around them, what are three things you would advise them to do today?

Henry Coutinho-Mason: Oh, that's a great question. I think it goes back to what one of the things that industry popped into my head. When you're answering a question, I always think about this idea of people. If someone who you think is brilliant puts an offer on the plate to you or you know, an offer, maybe it's a half formed offer. Maybe they don't even know where they're going.

For me, I would always say jump at that and vice versa. Or if you have an idea and you can't persuade someone who you think is brilliant to come on board with you, and it might be like their personal situation, circumstances, you know, aren't right. But good people know good people, as my experience. And, you know, if you speak to a couple of people and ultimately for me, if someone who you think is amazing is not jumping on board with you for that idea, I mean, even the books I've read never had to work, both with coauthors.

I've always had partners in everything that I've done. Maybe it's just the way that I'm prime. Yeah, things where I've tried to go it alone, you know, haven't succeeded, and things where I've worked with someone that I think is amazing, you know, have been my greatest successes. So that would be kind of my number one piece of advice is to try and speak to someone who is either that you know directly or someone someone that they know.

If you can't get brilliant people to, isn't there to be a co-founder with you? But the ones who are great? Yeah, yeah, really lean into it on your behalf then I think that's a that's a big red flag. 

Anita Brick: On the other hand, it's probably good to talk to more than one person because not everyone is going to love what you love. So maybe it's having a few people that you talk to before you make a decision.

Henry Coutinho-Mason: 100%. Yeah. I mean, I think you know, we've been having a conversation. We have found a group. So it's like, you know, yeah, the frustration of people who kind of over protect their ideas. You know, ironically, the truth is if you step back, the ideas are everywhere. You know, and I know it's a cliche to say that, but it truly is your actions that matter. You know, what I try and do is help people see opportunities in new ways and think about them in new ways. But ultimately, you've just got to try things. I, you know, I would say is another thing I'm a passionate believer in.

Historically, we used we tried to gather data up front, you know, and that made sense. If you're building a factory, you know, you have to try and de-risk that decision making. It's a lot of money and it's going to be there for a long time. Most of the ideas that people you know can jump on, you can test them so easily today, whether it's just a little Google ad or whatever, people need to be braver with their ideas.

So that would be the second, you know, piece of advice: be brave people. Think of what smallest steps you could make is, you know, so I'm trying to get someone on board in some way would be one. But there are other ways that you can test it. That's another way that you could get someone on board. You could say, I've got this crazy idea.

Or, you know, this might sound crazy. Here's a bit of evidence that I think it might work. How can we take this to the next level? So they just take those first steps.

Anita Brick: Okay, and number three?

Henry Coutinho-Mason: Number three. Oh, God. You've got me. 

Anita Brick: It's okay. I mean, if there isn't a third, that's okay too. But I just want to give you the opportunity if there is one.

Henry Coutinho-Mason: Now those are the two I'm a big believer kind of when you, you know, if you're running out of things to say just play it. It makes the things that you do say hopefully feel more considered.

Anita Brick: I appreciate it. Thank you Henry, thank you for making the time. I know that it is evening. Thank you for writing the book and thank you for sharing your ideas with us today, and I really appreciate it.

Henry Coutinho-Mason: It's been an absolute pleasure to thank you so much for having me on. Love the conversation.

Anita Brick: Thanks again and thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brook with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.